First off, I'm going to say this: I've never been one for carrier ratting. I just don't enjoy the idea of ratting and fielding that much isk for an activity I can do easier for far less work.

From a PvP stand point though, Carriers have been in a dire state for a while now and this will further knock them down. I can't comment on the supercarrier side of this change, but I will say it's probably quite over the top.

As many people have said here, EVE is in the middle of probably the largest cold war since its release (at least for me it feels this way), entities are scrounging for as many resources as they possibly can, so that when the next great war kicks off we can all jump in our ships and give the boot to whoever needs it the most without worrying so much about our wallets.

I do a lot of theorycrafting, as I'm sure many other posters here do. I also do a lot of testing, both on TQ and on SISI/TD when the time allows it. I can catergorically tell you that carriers are already weak. As a carrier pilot, you spend ridiculous amounts of time training into this fabled ship, only to see if go through so many balance passes from being an effective cap killer and logistics platform that required skill and finese into an effective subcap killer where we saw them being used solo for some interesting content to whatever the hell they are now.

I agree a carrier shouldn't be able to solo a competent gang. I agree there must be counterplay so I could somewhat forgive the initial nerf carriers faced after the changes and the introduction of the NSA to both the baby carrier and the supercarrier. BUT, going from being able to effectively fight off small gangs of ships with a lone carrier to being locked down by a single griffin? You can't be serious. Not only can my fighters not track said griffin, but now they can't even lock him so who cares.

I can't see any scenario where it isn't better to drop 5 HAW dreads on a gang than to drop 5 carriers on the same gang. FAX are supposed to be DPS support ships. Why would anyone commit a carrier in a capital fight when they can't hit the broadside of a barn without bucket loads of tracking? Plus, a dread will always be better than a carrier in a capital fight. Oh, and not forgetting the fact a dread also has a fleet hanger and SMA, so the ONE thing carriers had sacred isn't even there to persuade people who just want a suitcase, when you can get a dread far quicker for that purpose.

Oh and while I'm on about support; if I wanted to be a giant capital bhaalgorn, I'd fly an ACTUAL bhaalgorn. Even with these changes coming to pirate faction ships, a few bhaalgorns will still probably be cheaper than a carrier and equally if not more effective?

Now; from a PvE perspective, heres my two cents:

- Nerf the ratting bounties?
- Make anoms respawn slower, forcing people to move systems, hence making ratting more risky and active.
- Incursions? Think about those, just saying.
- Oh, and improve NPC AI and increase rat EHP?

And quite frankly, if someone has spent the best part of half a year training to sit in this ship and wants to use it for ratting, they should make more than Mr Alpha in a free account VNI. You're forgetting the sheer amount of effort than goes into training and piloting carrier -- even just for ratting, god forbid those people be rewarded for their invest to the game, cmon guys.

TLDR: Are you sure CCP? Might wanna review the PvP side of EVE.

So I'm guessing these Devs never post or respond to these ever? Seriously CCP you should really read the msgs here loads of good ideas maybe it's time to actually listen to the customer base hmm? o7 CCP o7 R.I.P Eve by the sounds of things

Of course the main reason is PVE but that does not change the point. They are not too concerned about the PVP ramification because they think the ships are doing a bit too well anyway. That is why they are not trying a PVE only change. They might be totally wrong but that does not change their point of view.

no point in wasting anymore money on this game. going form pay $$$ to pvp in carrier to just carebearing in a Ishtar so I can plex my account what a fun game. you suck ccp

This makes no sense. So you're sweeping the biggest ISK making game-breaking exploit and guilty parties under the rug while at the same time punishing people that are actually out their grinding for their ISK instead? You people are the equivalent of corrupt politicians with how you represent us and you're equally as out-of-touch.

This is a bad idea. I understand some damage reduction but this is a bit too much. Also, NPCs already target fighters 100% of the time. Whats the point in upping that?

Burn Jita w/ alpha accounts!

That's a thing that should go if they think too much ISK enter the economy but... :CCP:

Terrible approach. Honesty this is inline with the over simplified/ineffective sweeping nerfs that have been applied this year. Is it too much to ask that CCP take the time to develop intelligent nerfs rather than over simplified (seamingly intuitive) approaches? CCP's response: NERF EVERYTHING, NERF RORQS, NERF RORQS, NERF FIGHTERS, NERG RORQ AGAIN, NERF FIGHTERS AGAIN. Seems like the decision process making behind these nerfs is pretty flawed. If there is a problem in the trends, reducing the entire system with a constant (.7 in this case) doesn't change the trends, just the magnitude. Steering user behavior is accomplished using this focus on trends approach, this nerf is simply cutting the user off at the knees and expecting them to enjoy it. oh and the rorqual pvp nerf, also very half baked.

PS THANKS TO CCP FOR INSPIRING ME NOT TO ATTEND EVE VEGAS!!! mmm money saved.

yeah img all of goons + friends gone.... Rip eve, they represent more then 50% of all the eve players. Just saying

The injectors are an amplifier. Whatever is broken has everybody jump on the new FOTM much faster. If they constantly made small iteration to things so they never stay a long time broken it would not be that big of a deal but stuff stay in the same state for months giving MANY people time to hop on the bandwagon and then the nerfs come and everyone who joined is mad because they get nerfed forgetting the fact they all had jumped on a bandwagon because for many of them, it's been months since they did the jump.

Well, We have a Response from CCP Quant on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6gaemf/burn_eden_rorcarrieratting_edition/diovza9/

Are you serious? Does ccp even realize what the hell they are doing?

Guys,
Before y'all go rantzerker, please look at the economic report. CCP is nerfing it because ratting incomes have more than doubled over the last year.

Peace is good for business it seems.Incomes Loss/Gains by Type

Reddit subthread that Quant (rather foolishly) tried to wade into this discussion on has a great idea from a Goonswarm member who quite rightly points out that this hurts the single-account players more than most others. The ones that worked to get to carrier without multi-boxing the AFK Ishtar or VNI etc. and have a not-unreasonable expectation that a Capital ship should be better than a sub-capital ship in most circumstances.

The idea they had was an excellent one and was simply to apply diminishing returns on ratting bounties. The exact level of returns would probably need some tweaking, but Carriers damage projection would be unhurt for the first few hours, then would taper off. Would impact every other bounty isk source in a consistent manner and result in a moderated and equalised lowering of the isk inflation and bounty problem across the board once diminishing returns dig in.

I think we're missing context here, we have no idea where CCP pulled these figures from (for money generation or the figures for the nerf as we haven't been provided the thought processes behind them, they've just been delivered like a hammer), though Quant's 780 M per hour per account seems utterly ludicrous given the concentration required for one Super/Carrier, perhaps the data could be provided for this? I'd be amazed if even a single Super/Carrier could get more than about 500 M per hour, but then I've seen stranger things I suppose.

Either way Jibrish's suggestion is an excellent one and provides a fairer application that would apply to the other problem areas of bounty generation, rather than smashing the carrier/super into obsolescence.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/6gaemf/burn_eden_rorcarrieratting_edition/dioy4lk/

Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught.